All about Portuguese (and Spanish)

[maxiewawa]

Hey!

I just thought I'd start a Portuguese thread. I mean, a thread about Portuguese since a thread in Portuguese isn't an option at this stage of my Portuguese learning!

If anyone hasn't been keeping up with the message boards, there has been quite a lot of interest in Portuguese and its relation to Spanish.

Instead of cluttering up the spanishpod101 message boards with discussions not related directly to Spanish, I thought I'd start this thread...

I haven't got so much to say now, but I guess here is where our Portuguese info can go!

I've been listening to Brazilian Podclass sporadically, I love the sound of "Portuguese du Brazil" but don't understand it so well... does anyone know any other Portuguese podcasts?

Sorry I'm not sure of the URL for Brazilian Podclass... do a search on the iTunes store, por favoch! <-- not sure of spelling!

[Joseph]

Oi Max,

Acho que seja uma boa ideia falar um poquino sobre o portuguese e espagnol ó como se diz "o portañol" quando não se fala bem os dós. Bom, eu que ainda estou aprendendo espero que outros possam nos ajudar, ja que seria bom demais se fosse posívil aprender os dós linguagens no mesmo lar.

Hola Max,

Creo que sea una buena idea hablar un poco sobre el portugués y español o como se dice "el portañol" cuando no se habla bien los dos. Bueno, yo que todavía estoy aprendiendo espero que otros nos puedan ayudar, ya que sería demasiado bueno si fuera posible aprender los lenguajes en el mismo lugar.

Hey Max,

I think it may be a good idea to speak a little about Portuguese and Spanish or as they "Portañol" when the two are not spoken well. Well, I who am still learning hope that others can help us, since it would be so great if it were possible to learn the two languages in the same place.

Saudaçãoes, Saludos, Regards,

Joseph

[Joao Paulo]

OK, Max!

I believe it's much better talking about it here in the forum instead of using all the space of the comments!!

Also, I am here if it can be of any help...

Regards

[maxiewawa]

Here's something interesting Joao Paulo said today:

Yes, you are correct about Portuguese, that’s the right conjugation. Just remember that the same way Latin Americans do not use “tú” and “vosotros”, we don’t use “tu” e “vós” in Brazil. We use “você/vocês” instead, conjugated just like “usted/ustedes” in Spanish.

[Joao Paulo]

Now, I have a question!

xavi said:

Cuidado con no confundir “obligado” con “obrigado”. Son “false friends”. There are a lot of false friends between Spanish and Portuguese

and Joseph said:

Good point Xavi,

In Spanish “obligado” means “obligated”, while in Portuguese “obrigado” means “obliged”. This is a good example of how the apparent similarity of these two languages can be deceiving.

Actually I don't see how "obligated" can be different from "obliged". In my dictionary obligate means "to bind or compel (someone), esp. legally or morally" and oblige means "make (someone) legally or morally bound to an action or course of action".

Is there really a difference among those?

"Obrigado" in Portuguese also means "obligado" in Spanish. The difference is that "obrigado" in Portuguese can also mean "thank you", while in Spanish the word "Gracias" is used.

For example, I could say:

Ele foi obrigado a testemunhar (Port)
Él fue obligado a testificar (Sp)
He was compelled to testify (Eng)

There are indeed a lot of "false friends" (or cognates) between Spanish and Portuguese. I can also later enter a short list with the most common ones in this forum. (I just have to copy them from my guide book )

Also, Max... about the phrase you quoted from me... well, I am trying to make things simple for now. The use of pronouns in Brazil is a little more complicated than just that.

Let's say that when people at SPOD start talking about "voseo" in Argentina, if you feel like, I could also introduce some more information about the use of pronouns in Brazil. There are "some" similarities.

What's more, Max, I really have to say that I don't know where you find so much time for studying all of those languages!!! You have to teach me how to do that!!! Ganbatte ne!

[Joseph]

The point I was trying to make with "obligated" and "obliged" is that "obrigado" is much like the word "obliged" in English, since "obliged" means "to put in one's debt by a favor or service" (i.e we are much obliged for your help) and "to constrain by physical, moral, or legal force or by the exigencies of circumstance" (i.e. we are obliged to find a job).

It's my sense (and please let me know if I am wrong) that the Spanish word "obligado" does not carry this 'double entendre'. What do you think? have you ever heard "Much obliged!" in English as a way of saying "Thank you kindly!" or something like that?

[maxiewawa]

Doumo Obligado gozaimasu、Joao Paulo! But my Spanish/Portuguese/Korean aren't anything to brag about yet!

Yes, I've heard "much obliged" used in that way, but not in contemporary English. I'm not in a position to comment on its use.

The url for the site I mentioned above is http://www.brazilianpodclass.com/blog/, have a look for regular Portuguese lessons!

[Joao Paulo]

Hello, Joseph.

I was just asking because English is not my native language, therefore there may be some meanings of a word that I don't know.

I hardly remember using those words. My point is that "obligado", in Spanish, does not sound really like a false cognate for me, as "xavi" said. We just have an "extra" use for that in Portuguese.

I really don't know the origin of this usage, but I believe it comes from the fact that when somebody does you a favor, you are "obrigado" or morally compelled to retribute.

[Joao Paulo]

Max,

I had previosly listened to the podcast you mentioned. They speak a variant from Rio de Janeiro (RJ), second largest city of Brazil, located about 7 hours by car/bus from São Paulo (SP).

The difference in pronunciation from these two variants is basically the sound of "r" and "s".

In SP the "r" sounds more like the "r" in Japanese, while in RJ, like the "r" in French.

In SP the "s" sounds more like "s" in English, while in RJ, like the "sh" in English.

JP